Generation Rate

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evoked
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Generation Rate

Post by evoked »

Hi,

I have a question :)

Currently there are around 50 peers online generating. Lets say this number increases to +1000, will that affect the generation rate for all peers? So in essence, when more and more people come online, does it decrease the number of times you can generate per day?

I want to know this because one this because main stream, there can be a lot of people with great resources that could potentially destroy the market value.
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PoisonWolf
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Re: Generation Rate

Post by PoisonWolf »

evoked wrote:Hi,

I have a question :)

Currently there are around 50 peers online generating. Lets say this number increases to +1000, will that affect the generation rate for all peers? So in essence, when more and more people come online, does it decrease the number of times you can generate per day?

I want to know this because one this because main stream, there can be a lot of people with great resources that could potentially destroy the market value.
Even if the online count increases to 1000 servers, the rate at which peers get elected will remain the same. Servers will need to remain online to wait for the opportunity to get elected. The number of people getting elected does not change as the number of servers go up. This is the funnel which limits the generation of timekoin in that sense. Of course, over time, due to chance, elected servers also will go offline. So there's that.

If you have a lot of resource to get 100,000 servers up, you still need to wait for 100,000 servers to get elected in order to be able to do anything. And even if you got them elected, they would only all start generating at 1tk per cycle.
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evoked
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Re: Generation Rate

Post by evoked »

Thank you so much for your response.

So in short:

what happens is, that right now you produce lets say 8 per cycle, and that might happen lets say 100 times a day. When you have more users online, you still produce 8 per cycle, though probably 20 times a day and gradually less per day as more and more users join the network.

Correct?
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PoisonWolf
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Re: Generation Rate

Post by PoisonWolf »

evoked wrote:Thank you so much for your response.

So in short:

what happens is, that right now you produce lets say 8 per cycle, and that might happen lets say 100 times a day. When you have more users online, you still produce 8 per cycle, though probably 20 times a day and gradually less per day as more and more users join the network.

Correct?
Not really. Say if there are 50 users on the network right now, and each of us are elected and are generating 10 tks per cycle, and there are 10 generation rates a day. There are only 3 election slots a day (+3 users per day max).

For day 1, there would be +5000tk added to the network (50 users x 10 tks per cycle x 10 generation rates). Each user will earn 100tk on day 1.

Now, let's say on day 2, 10 extra users join the network, this would result in 60 users total. However, at the end of the day 2, there would only be 53 elected users and 7 non-elected users (remember only a max of 3 users can get elected per day in this example). Now, the new users do not make 10tks per cycle. Since they are new, they make 1 tk per cycle. So on day 2, there would be +5030tks added to the network. The first 50 users will get another 100tk, and the 3 new users will get 10tk each.

And this process goes on and on. The amount of TK you get as a person never changes. The only thing that changes is how many people are generating at any given point of time. The limiting factor is the number of election cycles that occurs per 24 hours. If the number of users waiting to get elected is GREATER than the number of election cycles in a 24 hour period, that means some people will not be able to start generating TK.

I hope this makes it clearer.
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evoked
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Re: Generation Rate

Post by evoked »

Hi mate.

Thanks again for going over this with me in detail. I seem to be getting the point. So in short, does TK have a similar thing to Bitcoin mining difficulty, where the more users are trying to obtain the currency, the harder it will get? Based on what you are saying; being elected may take longer given the numbers increase, though once elected you will generate as per normal. So given this is true, then how would the system prevent someone from putting up 100 servers per week and suddenly flooding the place with TK if they are to wait patiently until they are all elected?

Thank you again and sorry if i am repeating the same question.
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PoisonWolf
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Re: Generation Rate

Post by PoisonWolf »

evoked wrote:Hi mate.

Thanks again for going over this with me in detail. I seem to be getting the point. So in short, does TK have a similar thing to Bitcoin mining difficulty, where the more users are trying to obtain the currency, the harder it will get? Based on what you are saying; being elected may take longer given the numbers increase, though once elected you will generate as per normal. So given this is true, then how would the system prevent someone from putting up 100 servers per week and suddenly flooding the place with TK if they are to wait patiently until they are all elected?

Thank you again and sorry if i am repeating the same question.
Don't apologize. This is an issue that I've struggled with as well originally, so I can see why you're asking what you're asking.

The system does not prevent it. The question is if you put 100 servers up per week, but only 5 servers are getting elected a day....can you wait 20 days for all your servers to get elected? After that, can you KEEP all your 100 servers elected and make sure that none of them lose internet access? After that, can you MAINTAIN their online status for XX weeks until you reach 10tk/cycle generation rate? Even after ALL THAT, as you're trying to get your 100 servers elected...what if there are 1000 other random internet Joes all joining the network? Then your odds of getting elected goes from 100% (any one server out of your 100 server) vs. 9% (100/1100). The limiting factor at the end of the day is.....time. It costs $$ to keep servers online....it is very difficult to suddenly bring it XXX amount of servers to try and make XXX amount of money quick. No matter what..it requires time.

I hope this make sense. Right now...there seems to be an abundance of currency because there is no demand/use for it yet. However....once the need for the currency exceeds the rate at which currency is being generated....then you could say that TK will have value as a medium of exchange.

Hence I always encourage users to use the marketplace to buy/sell stuff, even small stuff initially to start the ball rolling.
warmach
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Re: Generation Rate

Post by warmach »

PoisonWolf is right, the equivalent of BTC difficulty is time. The unique thing is that time is a finite resource. Each of us only have 24 hours in a day. Just that fact limits what is possible greatly.
PoisonWolf wrote:
Hence I always encourage users to use the marketplace to buy/sell stuff, even small stuff initially to start the ball rolling.
While selling goods and services is best for long term TK value, trading is a viable option as well. There will always be people who would rather not spend the time to setup server, elect, and generate TK. These people would rather just purchase it, even if just speculating. You can do this with the TK Marketplace, forum, or Open Ledger decentralized exchange. While I operate the OpenLedger gateway for Timekoin, I like OpenLedger because it is decentralized and already has a large number of users. I feel this opens Timekoin to other crypto enthusiasts and speculators.
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evoked
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Re: Generation Rate

Post by evoked »

warmach wrote:PoisonWolf is right, the equivalent of BTC difficulty is time. The unique thing is that time is a finite resource. Each of us only have 24 hours in a day. Just that fact limits what is possible greatly.
PoisonWolf wrote:
Hence I always encourage users to use the marketplace to buy/sell stuff, even small stuff initially to start the ball rolling.
While selling goods and services is best for long term TK value, trading is a viable option as well. There will always be people who would rather not spend the time to setup server, elect, and generate TK. These people would rather just purchase it, even if just speculating. You can do this with the TK Marketplace, forum, or Open Ledger decentralized exchange. While I operate the OpenLedger gateway for Timekoin, I like OpenLedger because it is decentralized and already has a large number of users. I feel this opens Timekoin to other crypto enthusiasts and speculators.
+1
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evoked
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Re: Generation Rate

Post by evoked »

PoisonWolf wrote: The question is if you put 100 servers up per week, but only 5 servers are getting elected a day....can you wait 20 days for all your servers to get elected? After that, can you KEEP all your 100 servers elected and make sure that none of them lose internet access? After that, can you MAINTAIN their online status for XX weeks until you reach 10tk/cycle generation rate? Even after ALL THAT, as you're trying to get your 100 servers elected...what if there are 1000 other random internet Joes all joining the network? Then your odds of getting elected goes from 100% (any one server out of your 100 server) vs. 9% (100/1100). The limiting factor at the end of the day is.....time. It costs $$ to keep servers online....it is very difficult to suddenly bring it XXX amount of servers to try and make XXX amount of money quick. No matter what..it requires time.
Well i guess i am thinking in terms of resources and aim. For example, for BTC, we have people in china and other locations around the world who have taken over a high percentage of the mining process. Mainly due to the available budget and resources to them. I am just weary that in the end, people as such could dominate the coin in the same manner. I am sure they would be willing to wait to get all the servers elected, as it would be more of a long term goal. I guess the answer here then is: The election process will take a long time, but, once you are elected then you are in and as long as you keep the internet active and alive, you are already through the barrier mentioned.
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PoisonWolf
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Re: Generation Rate

Post by PoisonWolf »

evoked wrote:
PoisonWolf wrote: The question is if you put 100 servers up per week, but only 5 servers are getting elected a day....can you wait 20 days for all your servers to get elected? After that, can you KEEP all your 100 servers elected and make sure that none of them lose internet access? After that, can you MAINTAIN their online status for XX weeks until you reach 10tk/cycle generation rate? Even after ALL THAT, as you're trying to get your 100 servers elected...what if there are 1000 other random internet Joes all joining the network? Then your odds of getting elected goes from 100% (any one server out of your 100 server) vs. 9% (100/1100). The limiting factor at the end of the day is.....time. It costs $$ to keep servers online....it is very difficult to suddenly bring it XXX amount of servers to try and make XXX amount of money quick. No matter what..it requires time.
Well i guess i am thinking in terms of resources and aim. For example, for BTC, we have people in china and other locations around the world who have taken over a high percentage of the mining process. Mainly due to the available budget and resources to them. I am just weary that in the end, people as such could dominate the coin in the same manner. I am sure they would be willing to wait to get all the servers elected, as it would be more of a long term goal. I guess the answer here then is: The election process will take a long time, but, once you are elected then you are in and as long as you keep the internet active and alive, you are already through the barrier mentioned.
Yes, all that is true...but then the question becomes...so what? If China is willing to add 1000 servers to the Timekoin network....then I'd argue that it only makes the network stronger! And trust me...by the time someone is interested in putting up large server farms to support the timekoin network...there will be a LOT of competitors, making it EVEN harder to get elected.
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